PMGR starter questions

[at_the_junkyard]

So I am throwing this out there for the group to chime in on.

I am currently running a stock PMGR mini starter from a 95 mustang. It works well but seems to crank my engine slower than the old direct drive unit. I upgraded to the mini starter as my 347 is a 10-1 with a high lift cam which makes it a fair amount harder to turn than a stock V8 etc.

Noticed the PMGR starter has 10 teeth and the old direct drive unit had 9 teeth. I get that the gear reduction feature spins the starter slower with more torque. However with the 10 tooth gear it should spin a bit faster than a 9 tooth, so not sure how it works out for final cranking speed but I think overall the PMGR is a bit slower.

Doing some research I found that the 96-04 mustang starters use a 12 tooth drive. The replacement drives for these look exactly the same as the 95 PMGR etc. It seems ford started putting these 12 tooth drives in some later models etc. Perhaps this was done to increase cranking speed ? or perhaps they increased the gear ratio as well and it is the same ?

So my big idea to improve cranking speed is to simply replace the 10 tooth drive with a 12 tooth drive. I think it should be compatible with my 157 tooth flywheel (which I think is the same tooth count as the newer 4.6 flywheels etc)

Anyone messed around with this or simply used a 12 tooth starter from a 96 up mustang ?

[at_the_junkyard]

So after some further research it appears that although the starter drives may look the same in pictures the later 12 tooth gear is actually quite a bit larger diameter. The later models are also a 3 bolt starter so they must have changed the bell housing to accommodate the difference in the gear. So much for that idea

I swapped starters back to my 9 tooth direct drive to try and you can definitely tell by the sound that it does crank the motor much faster. So in the end perhaps if higher speed and hi torque are desired one must look at an aftermarket starter such as a powermaster etc.

[Hissing Cobra]

I can't say anything about the PMGR starters as I've never used one before but I do know that I upgraded to a mini starter on my 10:8:1 compression 347 back in 2014 because my old starter began to spin very slow and it would fail to start the engine. At that point, it had been in my '79 Cobra for 10 years between both my 302 and my 347 but it became weak over time. The telltale symptom was when it would start the car fine if it was cold but when it was hot it would barely spin itself, never mind the engine. Thus, I upgraded to the Ford Motorsport mini-starter (standard on '93 Mustang GT/LX 5.0's) and it's been awesome since the upgrade. Even when hot, it will spin the engine without any problem.

I never got into the teeth count on the starters and simply bought one that was advertised to work with the '93-up Mustangs with the 5.0 liter engine/5-speed combo.

You should be able to walk into a Ford dealer and have them order you one (I paid less than what it was advertised online) but here's a link if you're interested in buying one online.

https://lmr.com/item/M11000B51/ford-...iABEgKVRvD_BwE

[gr79]

164 and 157 tooth flywheel starters
https://shop.watsonracing.com/search...00-B51&Submit=
LMR for 157 same number less markup.

[85GTGuy]

.... I upgraded to the Ford Motorsport mini-starter (standard on '93 Mustang GT/LX 5.0's)

Actually, Motorsport advertises that their mini-starter (even though they do say it is the same size as the '90+up OE one) has even more torque than the one that came from the factory on the '90+up 5.0 Stangs!

[richpet]

I ran an aftermarket PMGR starter on my Mustang and plan to put one on the 347 when I install it.
It does sound a little slower cranking, but it always started and never sounded labored so the fact that it spun slower really didn't seem to matter.